Would you put Carvalho on Pele’s level?

I wouldn’t, but he’s an absolutely brilliant defender and will be regarded as one of the best defenders of the modern era.

On technique, you’re wrong. You don’t need perfect technique to be considered great. To be held in the same esteem as Pele or Maradona, yes.

On you rating players as individuals…

I’d disagree, football is a team sport and it is essential to be a team player. Without your team you’d be a circus juggler.

On the players you mention…

I wouldn’t consider any of them on a par with Pele or Maradona who are true greats.

For me,

Johan Cruyff *****
Socrates ***
George Best *****
Messi *****
Riquelme ***
Zidane ****
Bergkamp ***
Valderrama **

First of all, there are many players that would make in “any league”. Off the top of my head, let me say Carvalho. Is he then on Maradona’s level?

Also, it is so vague. How would you decide if a player would make it in “any league”? How would you know if they haven not played in it?

We are talking about football and the only way to ever rate a footballer is how well they play that ball. First of all technique, technique, technique. This is about 70%. If you do not have PERFECT technique, you cannot be a great. I mean the way you move with the ball, the way you cushion it, how economical your actions are, how imaginative you are when you feint or turn etc. For attacking players i’d add shooting, for defenders i’d add sliding and shielding and such.

Then there is tactical awareness. Constructing intricate moves, finding space, mastering timing. Or reading such moves and stopping them in case of defenders. 20%.

Lastly there are the intangibles. Fire (Carragher), drive (Gerrard), elegance (Redondo/Riquelme/Zidane), grace, audacity (Ronaldinho/Rivaldo) etc.

This is an imperfect system obviously. A player can have vast reserves of tactical awareness or some intangible and so overcome his lack of technique to become great, but this is difficult.

Notice i did add accomplishments or trophies or whatever. Football is a team sport. Your individual performance is all that counts to your tally.

Players i consider “Great”, that is, the highest level of football excellence. I must add that this only includes players i have watched extensively either live or via archival footage.

Maradona
Johan Cruyff
Socrates
George Best
Messi
Riquelme
Zidane
Bergkamp
Valderrama

This is an incomplete list obviously. But i consider all these players to have reached the highest footballing level at various times due to having a combination of the characteristics i mentioned above.

Hype, hype, and more hype! It’ll never change though…

I fully agree with your point that as a whole the footballing community seems to build most players up beyond there ability.

I constantly hear players being called world class when in my mind a world class player should then have the ability to break into any team in the world if they were bought. For example I would say there are only 5 world class centre forwards currently playing yet i will hear plenty of players being built up and never reaching the heights of the hype placed upon them.

“If Cristiano Ronaldo and David Beckham are viewed upon as being “World Class”, how do you rate Pele and Diego?”

At the moment I’d say Messi has the best chance of joining them, but you just never know.

You’re right that not many players deserve to be given these high accolades, but what about Ronaldo and Messi? I’d say they’ll be there or thereabouts come retirement day.

But like you said, tis all opinion and its good to see different views.

I agree with a whole lot of what you’re saying.

On Ronaldinho, I consider him a fantastic player but I wouldn’t put him with the likes of Cryuff and Beckenbauer if you’re interested.

I won’t argue with your choice of Pele as being the best as you put forward a good argument for him. But for me Diego was just as good.

Again, I wouldn’t read too much into what I was trying to convey. Maybe I should have worded it better, but for me there is little doubt that Pele and Maradona were a touch better than anyone else who has ever played, with perhaps the exception of Arthur Friedenreich or Di Stefano.

No one said anything about Beckenbauer being lucky. Der Kaiser was a phenomenal player as was Gerd Muller as was…

Nope, you’re wrong about the Danny Murphy thing and you’re looking at something that can’t be graded too literally.

Like I said in the article when players like Gerrard or Lampard retire you can then fully see how you would rate them. Until then, they’re most definitely a cut above being honest pro’s.

On your views, yep I agree with them all, some to a lesser extent, but I’d add a few things too.

Tis just an opinion really. No doubting that Platini and Beckenbauer were special players, I just don’t think they were as special as Pele or Maradona.

I wouldn’t read too much into players staying in one league. I tried to convey that I only really consider that while they are still playing.

I mean there can be little doubt that Frank Lampard or Steven Gerrard are ten times the player that Christian Poulsen is or ever could be.

Well, for me, Shearer is the greatest centre forward I ‘ve ever seen. But I think it’s pointless to say how he could have done in another league because he simply never went.